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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 1, 2005 8:31:21 GMT -5
One of the issues that the Std's Comm is working on is a standard for working fires.
It has been an issue for some time and we're asking for input.
The WFD section would be at the bottom of the box and would/ could include automatic dispatch of units on working fires such as;
Air Unit RIT Teams Additional apparatus
Or whatever the Chief or dept feels is needed.
What are your thoughts?
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ff25
Junior Member
Posts: 4
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Post by ff25 on Nov 3, 2005 14:09:21 GMT -5
I think that the working fire dispatch should be standard. This could work in conjunction with standardized dispatch to alleviate running so much equipment on some initial boxes.
Mark Dale
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Post by Safety 3 on Nov 4, 2005 7:50:08 GMT -5
I agree that a working fire dispatch could definitely help to reduce some of the first alarm assignments on the box cards in this county. However, I’m not sure I can agree with a county-wide standardized WFD. After all, a fire in Chambersburg may only require an additional engine and truck, where a WFD of an engine and three tankers may be more suitable for an area like Metal Township.
Last year, Washington County, MD proposed, but did not pass, a standardized box card/WFD for the entire county. The concept made sense, because it differentiated between urban, suburban, and rural areas, and provided box assignments and working fire dispatches that were tailored for each type of area.
Food for thought.
AFC 15
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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 7, 2005 9:01:50 GMT -5
The WFD would be a county wide Std, but the makeup would be left to the individual dept.
Once a WF was declared, the disp would refer the WFD section and dispatch the appropriate additionals.
This could be only the Air Unit, or Air Unit, transfers, additional engine(s), tanker(s), etc.
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fire3
Junior Member
Posts: 9
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Post by fire3 on Nov 7, 2005 22:54:59 GMT -5
HEY ALL,
WEL I AM NEW TO THE POSTING THING IN HERE SO PLEASE BE PATIENT WITH ME! I WILL REPLY FIRST WITH THE WORKING FIRE DISPATCH IDEA. I AGREE BOTH FROM DISPATCH AND AS AN OFFICER WITH THE IDEA. HOWEVER, RIT SHOULD NOT BE FOR A WORKING FIRE DISPATCH. RIT SHOULDBE SET UP EARLY AND FROM AN INCOMING UNIT ON THE INITIAL RESPONSE. I HARDLY EVER HEAR A UIT GET ASSIGNED RIT ON ANY WORKING FIRE IN THIS COUNTY. WHY ARE WE WAITING FOR A WORKING FIRE TO BE DECLARED BEFORE WE HAVE TO START THE ADD UNIT FOR RIT? IF I AM CORRECT THE THIRD DUE ENGINE (OR MAYBE THE FOURTH) SHOULD BE THE RIT. THIS SHOULD BE DISCUSSED BY THE DEPTS WITH WHOEVER THEY WANT TO RUN THERE MUTUAL AID. IF CO-7 HAS A HOUSE FIRE AND CO-17 IS THIRD DUE ENGINE, SHOULDN'T CO-17 BE THE RIT AUTOMATICALLY? THIS WOULD BE UP TO CO-7 TO SET UP WITH CO-17 AND C0-17 TO TRAIN ON IT. I KNOW THE PROBLEM WITH MANPOWER BUT THIS IS JUST AN IDEA AND ALSO ANOTHER REASON WHY RIT SHOLDN'T WAIT. AS FAR AS THE REST OF THE WORKING FIRE DISPATCH, IT COULD WORK. YOU HAVE TO TRAIN SOME OFFICERS THOUGH ON STATING WHAT THEY HAVE AND IF THEY WANT THE THE WFD STARTED. LIGHT SMOKE SHOWING IS NOT A REASON FOR A WFD. IT COULD BE FOOD ON THE STOVE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I BELIEVE THOUGH THAT IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING WELL THOUGHT OUT AND NOT JUST PUT TOGETHER SO WE HAVE A STANDARD. MAKE IT A STANDARD THAT WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO WORK FROM THE BEGINNING. LASTLY, REMEMBER THAT THE BOX CARDS NOW ARE TO LONG. NOT THE NUMBER OF CO'S ON THE BOXES, BUT THE BOX CARD LAYOUT IN GENERAL. THERE IS ALOT TO LOOK FOR AND THE COMPLAINTS WILL STILL ROLL IN FOR THE "SCREW UPS" THAT ARE MADE. I ASK THAT YOU DO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE DO NOT WORK FOR EACH DEPT AND IF TAHT DEPT HAS A WORKING FIRE THE REST OF THE COUNTY INCLUDING COPS HAVE TO TAKE A BACK SEAT. THE CALLS KEEP COMING IN FOR ASSISTANCE WHETHER THERE IS A HOUSE FIRE OR NOT. THE TIME IT TAKES NOW TO DECIFER WHO RUNS WHAT ON WHATEER INC IS TOO LONG. LET'S TRY AND SIMPLIFY THE BOX CARD FIRST. THEN WE CAN ADD THE EXTRAS THAT ALOT OF US WANT. AGAIN, I AM NEW SO TAKE IT EASY ON ME. THESE POSTS SHOULD BE FOR IDEAS AND COMMENTS AND I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT I TRIED TO DO. NO OFFENSE TO "DA VILLE" OR " DA TRUCK" JUST USING NUMBERS IS ALL!
DAVE HANN 1 LT 3 (NO RESON TO HIDE WHO WE ARE, RIGHT?)
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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 8, 2005 9:37:19 GMT -5
Hey Dave,
This is EXACTLY why I posted this draft and all drafts, so we have input of both a positive and negative nature.
Contrary to popular belief, these standards serve no other purpose but to attempt to standardize operations countywide. This is something that many, from DES, Chiefs, and other have talked and beat to death. Well not is the time to stop talking and start acting or implementing.
As far as the Box Cards being too long. No argument here and matter of record, we talked about this with reps from DES, were presented with a draft Box Card and that's where it stopped. The Chiefs Assoc and it's Std Committee are and has always been interested in simplfying the Box Card so that more info can be placed on them, such as WFD, RIT, Technical Rescue Assignments, etc. That ball is someone elses court !!
I agree w/ the 3rd or 4th due engine being the initial RIT and "da ville used to practice that. We are still considering changing back to that with additional units being dispatched for RIT as part of the WFD.
And believe me, this, like any other std is not developed over night. This std especially will take some time to develop, draft and implement.
So we've had some good info come of this, it is being recorded for future meetings, so PLEASE keep it coming.
The next meeting of the Std's Committee is next week at Co 17, all are welcome.
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darescuesquad
Senior Member
If you can't do it call a SQUAD or TRUCK CO.
Posts: 64
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Post by darescuesquad on Nov 8, 2005 11:03:42 GMT -5
Well fire3 I agree with what you said with the third or fourth due units being the RIT. Because they are on the scene and the officer/personnell could have taken an approach and did a walk around to see the hazards and were to put ground ladders in means of quick ecapes if one needed to be mad
It makes no sense to me WHY you have a department or special services coming lets say 7 miles away when in fact there is another department closer that can do the job!!!!!!!
JUST MY THOUGHTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 8, 2005 11:22:27 GMT -5
Explain this please;
It makes no sense to me WHY you have a department or special services coming lets say 7 miles away when in fact there is another department closer that can do the job!!!!!!!
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Post by Brian McCaffrey on Nov 8, 2005 13:57:26 GMT -5
Explain this please; It makes no sense to me WHY you have a department or special services coming lets say 7 miles away when in fact there is another department closer that can do the job!!!!!!! I believe he means as far as the RIT concept goes? If so, I posted the same thing under the RIT thread.
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Post by 18Engine on Nov 9, 2005 15:16:31 GMT -5
I see that some ideas are finally be thrown out on the table. I do have a couple of questions though. How many engines, trucks and squads are typically dispatched on a box alarm assignment in the county? Please do not count tankers, Ambo's, etc. I do think that you should look at a couple of things during the round table discussion. What type of building is on fire? Is it a commercial, residential or maybe an Apartment building. How many personnel do I have responding and or on the scene? OK, we have decided to use companies already on the scene as RIT. Do we back fill the with another company? Training issue is already a dead horse. Equipment? ? Is it also standardized? What units will carry the RIT equipment? Enough with the questions, my brain is fried.
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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 9, 2005 15:30:26 GMT -5
J, You're brain was fried before you even started that post!!! You're more than welcome to sit on the committee. Meeting is next week at 17's house.
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ff25
Junior Member
Posts: 4
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Post by ff25 on Nov 9, 2005 19:29:19 GMT -5
I agree box cards are to long and it sounds like the issue is already being addressed. The WFD is something that has a place on the card and is very good idea and there will be some differences between urban and rural areas but it could alleviate some radio traffic and confusion because dispatchers would know what additional units to send without everyone asking for transfers while command is asking for additional units as well. Some departments will probably end up having 2 different WFD's for areas with and without water systems.
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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 10, 2005 7:38:23 GMT -5
Some really good comments, so please keep them coming.
I will copy all of them prior to next weeks meeting. But I would ask that all committee members and anyone else interested in helping show up.
It's 11-15-05, 1900 at Co 17.
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Post by 18Engine on Nov 14, 2005 16:08:49 GMT -5
Tag, I would show up, but I will be riding the taxi on the hill in the morning and praticing the truck roll in the eveing.
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Post by MAYTAG on Nov 15, 2005 7:22:42 GMT -5
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